Do you ever get that? When you run across an image that isn't the best of fanart, not the most detailed, has plenty of errors, yet still somehow manages to evoke something so sincere that it ends up becoming a favourite?
That's how I feel about this. (Worksafe warning: contains naked Mir curled up; just a sketch, vague.) Simple, yes, yet there's something about the lines of her face that evokes such sympathy from me. I've always been touched by this pose of hers; it's a striking pose for the very final boss to have. Instead of being an imposing, monstrous demigod at the end (okay, she's that in her penultimate form, but still), she's just a frail little girl hiding away behind protective shields, hugging her knees in fear. That combined with the fact that beforehand, all she's basically saying to you is "go away... don't come near me...", creates such a heartrending image of someone who, more than anything, just wants all this conflict to end, even if she's scared that if she's the one who ends it, things will only return to the way they've been before.
Mir can't give in; she needs the world to change before she is prepared to stop fighting. If she concedes, she has no guarantee that they will. But Lyner proves that humans can be safe by being the first to back down, and once she's convinced of that, she gives in easily. She never wanted to fight.
Letra - Eldharia ~Inori Saku Mori~
2 months ago
51 comments:
Mir looks comfortable, protected by that bubble. The way I see it... She does not wish to awaken. After having been tormented and isolated for so long, with nothing but her own imagination and feelings to suggest that there is any hint of good in the world, even her faith in her own people--her will to create a world where all Reyvateils can live in peace--may be a gamble. She doesn't know for certain that eliminating all humans will necessarily bring the peace she desires. She may believe that the future is forfeit if she loses, but the future is uncertain even if she wins.
Confronted with the possibility that her ideal world may exist solely, entirely in her mind, her bubble of magic is the final haven within which her dreams are known with certainty. Even as she attacks and parries, she doesn't want the dream to end. Her smile is a hint of her appreciation for the last thing she has left to protect. At that moment, she is devoting herself to making peace with her own world before having to bid it farewell, perhaps forever, once the bubble bursts.
Such a dear child...
That's a really touching analysis, Deciare, and I think you particularly hit home with the idea that, win or lose, she's got to face up to a world afterwards that is by no means ideal, a world in which she can't guarantee her safety. Even hoping and planning for the future, she remains within her secure bubble, the only place where, as you said, she has absolute security.
When I saw the bad ending, I really pictured how horrific that scene must have actually been. You break through her barrier. And she's lying there, on the floor, this ashen-skinned girl, barely five feet tall, looking so tiny and fragile... and then what? You just stab her through the heart? I almost wanted to see an image of Lyner cradling her body in his arms, just to drive the point home that, no, she didn't just disappear in a puff of smoke; you killed her. You struck her down. She's dead.
I'm surprised you actually went for the bad ending, Ayulsa.
I never saw it myself, but if it's as you described, it must have been a heart wrenching thing to watch...
Oh my....that must have been hard...I hated that ending though...
I actually watched it on YouTube... I didn't play through it. But I couldn't bear the suspense. I had to know, because imagining what might happen was tormenting me.
I usually watch the bad endings for the games because I can't stand the thought of not seeing all the outcomes from the game, though some of these really make me regret having watched them...
And I don' t think it was very fitting for AT's bad ending to put Re-Nation as the ED song...
I was listening to Harmonious in the car this morning, and thinking about this post/image made me want to cradle her in my arms and tell her that she's the best part of the world.
"Go away! Don't come near me!" --Of course she's terrified, she's a helpless unarmed 70-lb girl. I wish we didn't have to hit her bubble with our weapons. Couldn't we talk her out? Couldn't we come close and hold her bubble gently and say, "The only thing that separates us is your own bubble, and it doesn't have to-- it's not our weapons waiting for you on the other side, it's just a few people who finally understand"?
made me want to cradle her in my arms and tell her that she's the best part of the world.
I found this so, so touching. What a thing to say, and I mean that in a wholly positive sense. :)
"Go away! Don't come near me!" --Of course she's terrified, she's a helpless unarmed 70-lb girl.
Exactly. And I think that's what makes the whole scene so striking-- she is utterly fragile and tiny. She may not be entirely helpless, but it's the image she evokes-- and one could just stab her once she was out of the bubble, if they were of the inclination. She has magic, but she's still very defenceless without that barrier; she can't drop a meteor on you when you're three feet away. (Well, she can. But forget game mechanics exist.)
I wish we didn't have to hit her bubble with our weapons. Couldn't we talk her out? Couldn't we come close and hold her bubble gently and say, "The only thing that separates us is your own bubble, and it doesn't have to-- it's not our weapons waiting for you on the other side, it's just a few people who finally understand"?
I really wish we could have seen an utterly non-violent final "battle"-- I wish we hadn't had to attack the bubble at all. Because that must have scared her so much, seeing all these people trying to tear down her last defence. That's hardly going to put her in a good mood when she comes out.
I suppose what drove the point home is that after we destroyed the bubble we didn't just kill her, but stood by; but still. The whole sequence still lacks a lot of empathy, I think. I'd've liked to see Mir get some genuine affection and emotional support in that scene; even if you spare her, she's going to be a crushed little thing, and the least Lyner could have done is offer her a hand of genuine friendship, an option of support, a "come see us any time and we'll make sure no one harms you, okay?".
I don't even think she could sing at them in time to prevent them from stabbing her. She'd have to be somewhere safe and protected while she built up her magic-- that's the whole point of the Reyvateil's guardian, after all. The game is so heavily built around that being the case. She'd be helpless. And, seriously, it's no wonder she didn't want to come out, with all those weapons hitting her shield, so unnecessary. No one ever approached her without involving weapons. If even just once, someone had come up to her without thinking about weapons, maybe she wouldn't have wanted the bubble to separate herself from them any longer.
And it's not like that battle had to be there for game mechanics reasons, anyway-- even if the creators felt like they had to have a traditional final battle, we'd already had one. Though, wouldn't it have been so much more impactful if we hadn't had any final battle at all...?
Also, you should know that the captcha for this is "gringr". I'm pretty sure Jim Theis spelled his hero's name like that at least once.
She'd have to be somewhere safe and protected while she built up her magic-- that's the whole point of the Reyvateil's guardian, after all. The game is so heavily built around that being the case.
You make a good point here that I hadn't thought of before at all. It is a battle against a Reyvateil, on her own. Just a Reyvateil. A powerful one, yes, but she's hugely disadvantaged. That's really quite striking, when you think about how incredibly vulnerable we've been considering Reyvateils to be all this time. I guess I go in my head, "oh, she's Mir, so she's powerful", but... she's not that much more powerful than Shurelia, and we'd cringe if we had to send Shurelia out on her own.
Also, you should know that the captcha for this is "gringr". I'm pretty sure Jim Theis spelled his hero's name like that at least once.
Quite probably including the lowercase.
We'd cringe at the dressing-down we got from sending her out on her own, too. (Actually, she'd more likely pout, wouldn't she. It's Misha who'd really yell at us for it. =D)
It's so common for games to use battle as a test of conviction. Do you really believe in the path you have chosen? Prove it. Have you truly abandoned your doubts and vices? Prove it. Do you expect me to believe that you will be the first person among thousands to have a shred of sympathy for me? Prove it. Prove it by smashing through my defence and surviving this onslaught.
Wait, what does that prove, exactly? That by virtue of your power to subjugate me, it would be more practical for me to believe in you than for you to believe in me?
That's a bit out of character for Mir, yes...
On the other hand, she was upset about having been sealed away for several hundred years. She was struggling to retain her consciousness, struggling for her right to exist in a world she only wanted to save. How do you get someone in such a state of mind to calm down by talking to her? How do you get close enough to cradle her? If you throw down your equipment and approach her calmly, you might be dead before you get close enough to see her face. Having slain you in such a ruthless manner will weigh heavily on her conscience, too, once she calms down.
What's the right approach to this...?
I feel that by the time the final battle came along, Mir was only attacking us to try to keep us from hurting her. I can't easily imagine her, at that point, striking down an unarmed target who is clearly demonstrating their intent to treat her kindly; isn't this what she's wanted for so long? Even if she's scared, why would she destroy it, when it finally does appear in front of her? She might be slow to accept that it's real, but I feel that she would watch and wait, rather than simply choosing to end your lives.
And ultimately, whether she does or not is up to the storywriters. I don't think it would have been out of character for them to make her act that way, and so certainly, they could feasibly have done it.
I'm mainly worried that at that moment, with one foot across the line between continued captivity and freedom, that Mir may be concentrating more on breaking out than being forgiven.
Her bubble contains the final safe haven for her ideals, but they're also ideals that she wishes to share with the world. She only falls back to a defensive stance once her full-scale escape effort (the first form) is stalled.
Maybe she will be more willing to listen as she tries to defend herself, and conflict could have been avoided then. I'm only suggesting that when they first met, her state of mind might have been a bit too agitated.
Then again, I'm ignoring Misha's Harmonious. Appealing to Mir's foremost sense to remind her of feelings from her own past, entwined with pleas for mercy and recovery, may well break through the wrath that clouds her judgement. As you said, the decision could swing either way.
I think a non-violent ending that didn't terrify Mir would be nice, in either case... Though it may be a bit tricky to cradle her room-filling form. Or know which part to cradle, exactly.
I'm now imagining a tender scene where Lyner embraces/dangles from one of Penultimate Form Mir's fingers. Awww. :)
And I feel that while cradling a room-filling Mir might be hard, a) she'd probably shrink back down once you started to hug her, and b), really, anything is preferable to repeatedly hitting her in the groin. I mean, seriously, what were the developers thinking of there? Poor Mir, even if it is just a construct/Song Magic surrounding her and not her actual self... talk about adding insult to injury....
And doublecommenting, but....
I'm only suggesting that when they first met, her state of mind might have been a bit too agitated.
Oh, quite possibly. I mean, Lyner does try to reach out to Mir in the first instance; she responds with Uber Form Of Hatred. I argue that could have been written differently and still make sense, but still. As you say, though, after that form is defeated she does drop back to defence, and I certainly see no reason to attack her then.
Also, I like your description of "appealing to Mir's foremost sense". That just struck me and made me go "...aww".
I think that even Mir's defensive form was a manifestation of her hatred, the dual nature of which included both hostility (her first form) and retreat/detachment from the external world (her second form). Born from hatred, her bubble might offer all the security in the world, but not in the way she would truly want it. It was still her nature to tend toward peace; yet, at this point, she was probably so steeped in her negative emotions that she couldn't possibly free herself, which was why Lyner felt the need to break the barrier for her. Granted, it was a violent way to go about doing so, and I'm also ambivalent about the morality involved.
The game, at least, presents the final battle as liberating for Mir rather than invasive, especially seeing how she crafted Rig=Veda right after.
That bubble didn't seem like such a pleasant environment to surround yourself in anyway, with the crawly tentacles and all. Even if it did hold Mir's ideals, they must have be distorted beyond recognition.
I'm now imagining a tender scene where Lyner embraces/dangles from one of Penultimate Form Mir's fingers. Awww. :)
Sounds like fun. ^_^ He'd be like the kind of string that gets tied around people's fingers to remind them of something they must not forget.
That bubble didn't seem like such a pleasant environment to surround yourself in anyway, with the crawly tentacles and all.
Hm, I always saw those as more like light radiating out from her that was helping her form the bubble. That said, anything formed from the fear and pain that she was feeling at the time can't have been that pleasant. The idea of them being tendrils... like even her own defenses were threatening her, encroaching on her security....
I love, incidentally, that we're getting some absolutely beautiful fine-grained analysis of the whole final battle sequence from the wonderfully intellectual commenters here. I don't think I appreciated all the nuances of it nearly as deeply as I now can; you've all helped this whole scene to come together wonderfully for me. There's so much in it. Thank you!
I suppose I imagine her as being not so likely to destroy someone as to wait and watch. I think that even if you firmly believe your lifelong dream will never come true, if it suddenly looks like it's going to, you might hesitate, might watch it just hoping it will, even if you don't think it will...
He'd be like the kind of string that gets tied around people's fingers to remind them of something they must not forget.
Wouldn't he be mostly like the kind of string that ends up making you go "I forget why this is on my finger"?
I think that even if you firmly believe your lifelong dream will never come true, if it suddenly looks like it's going to, you might hesitate, might watch it just hoping it will, even if you don't think it will...
*nods* I do not think she is so very far gone, by that point, that she wouldn't still feel hope creeping into her heart at the sight of any chance at all. I think even while she was manifesting Giant Forms of Hatey Doom and pushing Lyner and co. away, she probably still had doubts, still had hopes, because she'd never really stopped wanting to believe that it could be so, and they were offering her that.
And I think it's generally agreed that one of Mir's defining traits is that she never let go of the principles that drove her to create Harmonious; she ended up doing very warped things because of them, but still, because of them, not in spite of them. She never stopped wanting unity, and peace, and acceptance for her kind. And so I think she'd at least start to be responsive to any message that suggested that.
Wouldn't he be mostly like the kind of string that ends up making you go "I forget why this is on my finger"?
*wanted to say something like this, but could not actually come up with the pun. But yes. XD*
I think that even if you firmly believe your lifelong dream will never come true, if it suddenly looks like it's going to, you might hesitate, might watch it just hoping it will, even if you don't think it will...
*nods* I do not think she is so very far gone, by that point, that she wouldn't still feel hope creeping into her heart at the sight of any chance at all.
That's true, but while Mir might not attack, she wouldn't be so quick to let go of the defensive side of her hatred either. Plus, it's not as though Lyner and co. ever made such a great impression on her. They basically went from "Rawr, we'll lock you away in a huge dark room for all eternity and thwart all your attempts to escape" to "Let's be friends for the sake of world peace!" And she must have felt that even Ayatane had betrayed her, even if she wouldn't seriously harm him. As long as her barrier was intact, she was still distancing herself from the supposedly despicable humans and still allowing her hatred some rein over her judgment. But I'm also neglecting the effects of Misha's Harmonious...
Speaking of which, I remember reading somewhere (I think it was the Hymmnos Concert CD commentary) that Misha caused a Fusion when she downloaded Harmonious, as did Jakuri in AT2. We never really got to hear the original song, did we? *curious*
We never really got to hear the original song, did we? *curious*
No, we didn't. It would make sense that Misha's song was not the original; of course, it was directed at Mir.
I wonder if the original Harmonious, the true song that Mir crafted at the beginning of her life, will ever be revealed, or if we'll only ever be able to imagine its beauty.
Plus, it's not as though Lyner and co. ever made such a great impression on her. They basically went from "Rawr, we'll lock you away in a huge dark room for all eternity and thwart all your attempts to escape" to "Let's be friends for the sake of world peace!"
Though Mir might have developed an overall distrust of humans, I don't see her having a personal grudge against Lyner's party. Keeping her sealed was tradition. Lyner didn't say much about it until he concluded that it shouldn't be necessary, so there was no inconsistency in his sincerity. None of the people traveling with Lyner wanted the Crescent Chronicle; most of them just resigned to accepting it as something they can't change.
As long as her barrier was intact, she was still distancing herself from the supposedly despicable humans and still allowing her hatred some rein over her judgment.
Hatred is too strong a word to use against a world she wishes to save. I prefer the term "desperation". She was desperate to get out and took desperate actions to ensure that no one would be able interfere with her dream again. When Lyner offered her peace at the end of Phase 2, his word just wasn't good enough; he can't speak for humanity as a whole. Mir needed certainty, so she mocked him for his naivete. I honestly don't believe hatred was involved.
I wonder if the original Harmonious, the true song that Mir crafted at the beginning of her life, will ever be revealed, or if we'll only ever be able to imagine its beauty.
I wonder... Even if it sounds the same, it cannot be the same song if the original feelings are not present in the singer... There is no meaning to the words and melody if the performer can't believe in the purpose the song was originally crafted, the emotions it conveys to the Tower and the world.
The thing that was really clear is that she didn't have any trust in any of the other characters, and she was letting her sadness, anger and hatred direct her actions (remember what happened when she made the Hexagonal Plate fall from the Tower, and how she was totally bent in annihilating anything that opposed her plans when she possessed Shurelia). Though also, she has to be the most emotionally complex character from all AT, given her emotions, and how they have changed during the course of both games.
And, maybe at some time, we'll be able to hear the real original Harmonious, though Mir has to stop disliking humans first, and regain all of her feelings of love again before that happens (and I think that Chroah is really going to help her with that...) Who knows, it might just be the prelude to the song that will return the lost land and sky to the world of Ar Ciel...
Though the question is... how it would be title?
Just EXEC_HARMONIOUS/., and change Misha's version to EXEC_HARMONIOUS/.#Misha extracting?
And remember that I have yet to translate the liner notes for Harmonious_Fusion, so there could be some surprises in there.
And, maybe at some time, we'll be able to hear the real original Harmonious, though Mir has to stop disliking humans first and regain all of her feelings of love again before that happens (and I think that Chroah is really going to help her with that...)
I also think she's already part of the way there herself, if by AT2 she's got to the point where she's willing to work alongside humans. Heck, the fact that she's at the point where she's willing not to destroy the world, and that she acknowledged Harmonious and crafted Rig=Veda (and helped with Phantasmagoria) is a big step in the right direction.
Who knows, it might just be the prelude to the song that will return the lost land and sky to the world of Ar Ciel...
Wouldn't that be lovely? I would be truly moved if it did turn out to be that way....
Though the question is... how it would be title?
Just EXEC_HARMONIOUS/., and change Misha's version to EXEC_HARMONIOUS/.#Misha extracting?
I always wondered why it wasn't #Misha extracting in the first place. EXEC_HARMONIOUS/. is not her song; the extractor should be specified, surely, or else it should be marked as a fusion (HARMONIOUS_FUSION and HARMONIOUS_FUSION_V2/., or something?).
Yeah, though still there are some things about the hymn name syntax that we still don't know (as an example, how it would be named if a song caused a Fusion again, but by other person?)
Lyner didn't say much about it until he concluded that it shouldn't be necessary, so there was no inconsistency in his sincerity.
Judging from the events in Phases 1 and 2, I'd say that Lyner's party was an active force in keeping Mir sealed away. I'm mainly thinking of what Aquagon said, and also when Lyner prevented Mir from successfully possessing Aurica, if you took her path. Not to mention Misha herself is a Star Singer. What I was trying to say is that while Lyner is sincere, it may not seem that way to Mir.
Hatred is too strong a word to use against a world she wishes to save. I prefer the term "desperation".
If Mir did harbor any hatred, it wouldn’t have been directed toward the world as much as toward the humans whom she wished to exterminate (I’m pretty sure she even said something like "nothing can erase my hatred for humans" at one point). But you make a really good distinction here. Desperation, rather than hatred, was probably the drive behind many of her actions.
(as an example, how it would be named if a song caused a Fusion again, but by other person?)
EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/.#Misha extracting? Just a guess. ^_^;;
EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/.#Misha extracting? Just a guess. ^_^;;
That would make sense to me, actually. Or rename EXEC_HARMONIOUS/. to EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/., and rename EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/. to EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/.#Mir extracting. They'd never actually do that, I don't think, but it makes more logical sense....
Logically speaking... The primary key of an entry in a database rarely changes, as that kind of change can break all sorts of foreign constraints unless there's a mechanism to propagate that change universally. Since a Hymn's title can be registered as part of a standard dialect (Harmonious is a registered component of the Central Pure Note), there is a potential for problems during propagation across multiple Towers.
Misha's version of Harmonious was based on Mir's original song, whereas both versions of the Purger (which were explicitly marked with #Aurica extracting and #Misha extracting) were significantly different from each other, and probably different from the original song as well.
Maybe, as with Free Software projects, a branch from an existing project (extracting equivalent?) is not created until it differs substantially from the original, and a fork from the existing project (_FUSION equivalent?) is not created until both the code and the overall development philosophy differ significantly.
Real world example: Compiz (original) -> Compiz-quinn (branch) -> Beryl (fork) -> Compiz Fusion (merge)
Speaking about that, I found something interesting about that yesterday in the Toukousphere:
That the name of the hymns we have been seeing until now are only reduced forms of the actual names (the names registered in the song server proper). I could give you the examples I saw there, but since they are taken from AT2, I don't want to cause spoilers (even if they are very small ones). However, I can say this based on what's said in there:
EXEC_RE=NATION/. (Reduced form) -> EXEC_RE=NATION/.#Aurica extracing (Full form)
and...
EXEC_HARMONIOUS/. -> EXEC_HARMONIOUS/.#Misha extracting
EXEC_HYMME_LIFE_W:R:S/. -> EXEC_HYMME/.Aurica extends LIFE_W:R:S:XXXXX extracting (the XXXXX are the singing parameters (metamorphosis, burst level and charge), and since the default parameters for this song are unknown, I left them as XXXXX).
Huh! So all Hymn Crystal hymns are tagged with the extracting Reyvateil by default. Interesting to know, and thanks for that! That makes me feel a little better about Harmonious, since I did think it was unfair that Misha's wasn't tagged as not being the original; it was good timing that they came along with this. Will this be added to the wiki?
Yes, but later on, since I need to work a little more on understanding what was said in that Toukousphere page.
BTW; I think I did a little mistake, since Misha's Harmonious should be:
EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/.#Misha extracting (since it's an Hymmnos Fusion, and Misha was the one to do the extraction performing).
EXEC_HARMONIOUS_FUSION/.#Misha extracting (since it's an Hymmnos Fusion, and Misha was the one to do the extraction performing).
That's what I'd think it ought to be, too, but are the game's creators confirming that the full title does actually include the word FUSION? Or is that just what we think it should be?
Wow, you guys all know so much more about canon than I do! I suppose much of this is my fault because I'm avoiding spoilers so hard that I won't look at too much AT stuff on the internet, but I'm really impressed. Are you all secretly linked up to the Tower or something? ;)
@Deciare, regarding battle as a test of conviction: have you ever played Final Fantasy IV? I mention it because it's the only game I can recall offhand that uses restraint rather than fighting during a normal game combat situation to make a point with plot and theme.
Are you all secretly linked up to the Tower or something? ;)
...it was meant to be secret? O_o
EXEC_HYMME_LIFE_W:R:S/. -> EXEC_HYMME/.Aurica extends LIFE_W:R:S:XXXXX extracting (the XXXXX are the singing parameters (metamorphosis, burst level and charge)
That's neat... All Song Magic is a single function, EXEC_HYMME/., which is extended by a Reyvateil's feelings to direct the song server to emit signals that will cause the Tower to manifest her desires.
If that's the case, then it sounds like a Reyvateil's song never (or only slightly) directly interfaces with the part of the Tower that turns sound into signals into energy. It's mainly mediated through the song server.
It's good to know that Song Magic's effects aren't limited to a set of pre-existing functions already coded into the Tower.
On the other hand, it's a little depressing that the song plays such a minor role in connecting with the Tower... It's only part of the protocol for initiating and maintaining a command stream? Handshakes and keep-alives?
But maybe symphonic power can't be transmitted over long distances across nothing. So the song might be a kind of conduit, then, that flows both ways. Hmm...
*rampant speculation*
@haounomiko: It's kind of embarrassing to admit, but I never was able to win that battle by abstaining from fighting. ^^; I had to put the hurt on the dark knight every time. ._. A combination of lacking English skills and lacking healing items, maybe.
Are you all secretly linked up to the Tower or something? ;)
Try it sometime? You may find that there's a lot to like. ^_~
You mean it's winnable in any other way than fighting? My goodness... Which version(s) was/were this? I'm truly stunned.
You actually shouldn't have to survive more than two attacks or so, at least in the SNES release. It's not so difficult. (Surely you aren't playing the DS release? Because if you can win the boss battles in that, you can surely manage to withstand a couple blows from the dark knight...) Do you not have cure magic yet at that point?
I wonder whether what KluYa says is different if you win it in some other way... (Pardon me. I'm going to wander off in total shock now.)
Edit: Any other way than NOT fighting. Sorry. I was in such shock that I couldn't even say it right. ;)
Wait, you mean it isn't possible to win that battle by restraint? I thought if you had enough high-level healing potions, you may be able to survive enough rounds for the dark knight to leave you alone... I don't know if I just imagined that, but I thought I might have seen it happening?
He's like the kind of bully who does leave you alone if you ignore him so much that you no longer entertain him. So that's what's been perpetuating the myth... *nod nod*
That's what I'd think it ought to be, too, but are the game's creators confirming that the full title does actually include the word FUSION? Or is that just what we think it should be?
I think it's only what we think that it should be, since the game's creators haven't confirmed it...
And Deciare, remember I have yet to translate the part that explains in detail how the Song Magic works (the Wave Theory), so there are a lot of thinks that we don't understand well yet. However, remember that the song actually has importance in conveying to the Tower the effects of the songs, since only chanting Hymmnos lines without singing them doesn't produce very powerful effects.
BTW; I have added that info to the wiki, with a small correction: the XXXXX is actually the D Wave Frequency Band of the feelings that the Reyvateil emits when she is singing a song magic (since, contrary to the Hymn Crystal songs, she has total control over the wave emission when singing the songs she crafted from her feelings).
Deciare: clarification has happened. She meant she was shocked that it was possible to win the battle BY fighting as opposed to by restraint, because restraint is the only way she's ever heard of it being done. Because that's the way you're meant to do it, restraint being the key part of the trial to become a paladin, and all.
I admit I don't get how you beat him regularly by fighting if you couldn't survive not fighting, either. As far as I was aware, he was beatable only by someone with inordinate amounts of levels. You aren't meant to kill him. Were you playing some hack, or something?
So that's what's been perpetuating the myth... *nod nod*
The guidance counselors and teachers all played FFIV? Whew, good thing I didn't let the school find out I was into big geeky RPGs. The last thing I needed was to like the same games as the teachers. ;)
But yes, it's as Ayulsa said: I can't imagine defeating him through actually violently beating him up. In my mind, that's not the trial of a Paladin... I've always thought there was only one way through. And I'm going to continue to believe that story-wise because that's what's meaningful.
It should only take two rounds or so to win by restraint. It really isn't too hard, so I'm kind of surprised at the idea that it would be easier to de-HP him.
It isn't easier to de-HP him. It's crazy difficult. It's made worse by the fact that you always go through that battle as a level 1(?) Paladin. At the start of each playthrough, I would forget just how tough the opponent is, and have to reload an earlier save so I can blow the bank from stockpiling high-quality healing potions before I climb the mountain again and proceed to de-HP him painfully slowly and with a lot of luck.
I can't believe I'd been the only one crude enough to take the I-like-swords solution to the confrontation...
I have yet to translate the part that explains in detail how the Song Magic works (the Wave Theory), so there are a lot of thinks that we don't understand well yet. However, remember that the song actually has importance in conveying to the Tower the effects of the songs, since only chanting Hymmnos lines without singing them doesn't produce very powerful effects.
That's great! I look forward to the translation! Godspeed, my sanity depends on it! *rampant handshaking and congratulatory pats on the back*
So I'm trying to tease out what was actually going on here, because first you'd said that you were never able to beat him without using weapons, yet you also acknowledge that this is really, really hard to do and not easier than the other way. Was it more that you just didn't know what you had to do because you didn't understand English at the time? 'Cause otherwise, I confoosed.
I was confused by the messages flashing across the top of the screen, certainly. I did try to win the battle by doing nothing, but I Parried myself to death several times. Maybe I wasn't allowed to block either?
I thought the messages said something about parrying, specifically, so I'm not sure what I did wrong...
But I didn't think there was any other way out of that battle than to win, yes.
*nods*
I'd always felt very inspired by that part of the game. "Justice is not the only right in this world." --It's left to you to see what else is, and the answer, I think, is a lot of what I'm founded upon as a person.
I've also always felt that it took something incredibly special in Cecil for him to become a Paladin. I don't think it was his heritage, but rather who he was. Paladinhood is something I don't think I'd be willing to hack around by de-HPing an enemy who just wasn't programmed to be immortal. But that's because it means a lot to me.
So, yeah, that's my take on the matter. It's all mixed in with personal stuff, because that game is so special to me. It's my second favourite game ever, and I realise that sounds like mitigated praise, but it really isn't. To say that something else is even more special doesn't diminish the specialness of this one.
That's perfectly understandable. Stories and characters are more alive when they're all mixed up with personal stuff. I'm missing out by not having connected with the game as deeply as you did. FF4 is the game that drew me into the entire genre of RPGs, so it holds special meaning to me as well... Just not quite as deeply, since I didn't know how to appreciate it that way at the time.
Post a Comment