So over at the Reyvateil's Melody forums, LOKFanatic put together a side-by-side comparison of the Japanese and American box art for various NISA-released GUST games.
To be honest, I'd quite forgotten that AT1 had had a different cover, and to see the comparisons illustrated so starkly kind of shocked me. I think I'd subconsciously believed that we were past the days when covers were routinely changed for the American market, even though in practice I know things like the Final Fantasies get different covers (and I'm still not entirely sure why). The anime style of art and the Japanese aesthetic in general is so widely recognised amongst gamers now, and in fact beloved for its charm, that monstrosities like these unfortunate localised covers are looked upon as quaint relics of a less culturally aware era. Given that, I'm honestly not sure I see a need for revised covers. Isn't it just more expense on the developers' part?
Moreover, the aesthetic appeal of the Japanese designs aside, I'm troubled by the assumptions the changed covers seem to make about the two cultures. The Japanese covers for both AT1 and 2 prominently feature the female characters, who are of course the stars of the story, looking non-sexualised and in control. Sure, Chroche has got a bit of cleavage going on, but that's just her outfit in general; she looks composed and refined, not like she's posing for the cover of the Metafalss edition of Hustler. The emphasis is on the women, but not in a degrading way, so as to objectify them; rather, it's on them as the most important people on the box. They look like the protagonists, basically, not sidekick material: AT1 is obviously Aurica and Misha's game, just as AT2 is obviously Chroche and Luca's
Contrast with the American covers. AT1's wasn't too awful, and the first release was pink, which is quite a novelty amongst games not aimed at little girls, although it probably did put a lot of people off the game and definitely gendered the content. The original looked like a game that anyone might want to play; the American cover appealed to a niche, which is a counterproductive marketing strategy if ever I saw one. The biggest problem with it, though, is that the female characters have been pushed to the back. The message is clear: this game is about a guy with a sword and his singing, alluring female cohorts!
AT2's cover, however... ugh. Not only is the guy with the pointy thing in front again, but the background image is of the main female protagonists practically making out, and looking kind of nervous and vulnerable (well, okay, Chroche does) while they do so. The message here is clearer still: this game is about a guy with a sword and his two vaguely homoerotic female cohorts! Now, I have absolutely no problem with gayness in my games-- I'm bi myself, and it's always nice to see games that feature a wide spread of sexualities-- but this isn't about fair representation of lesbians, especially since I'm pretty sure from what I've heard (don't confirm/deny/spoil in comments, people!) that Chroche and Luca aren't actually together in the game. This is about putting female eroticism on the cover of a game so it will sell to men who want to look at that sort of thing. And, you know, that's not bad as such. There's nothing wrong with men who like looking at pretty girls. But save it for the artbook; placing it on the cover distorts the image of what the game's about. Ar Tonelico is about much more than thinly veiled sexuality, and selling the game like this cheapens it, as well as reducing the female characters to objects to be gazed upon, not people in their own right. If there's anyone out there you think needs a quick example of what objectification is, link them to this post: I think it's as good an example of the difference between presenting a person as a person, a being capable of independent agency, and presenting them as an object, a thing to be observed and enjoyed with the eyes with their own will seen as secondary, as you'll find.
The big problem I have with these covers is what they say about what games companies think of American fans. They assume the American gamer market is so crude, so adolescent, and, most galling of all, so overwhelmingly male, that they a) won't buy a game that has women shown as key characters in their own right, rather than sex objects, and b) would buy a game with two girls fawning all over each other on the cover over a game that seems to be a pretty, tasteful-looking RPG. Those are two awful assumptions to make about America, especially in contrast to Japan-- "the Japanese may like the tasteful stuff, but here in the good ol' U. S. of A., we want boobs! None of this fancy cherry-blossom-haiku-tea-ceremony stuff for us, no sir!"-- and, in light of the controversy over name localisations and NISA's recent commentary in press release that "the American market is different, and we have to cater to it", really makes it seem like they think the American market is stupid. Those durned Amerikkuns, they hate Japanese names in games, and they hate pretty, delicate things! That's right: the portion of the American market that plays games like Ar Tonelico seriously hates, you know, pretty fantasy worlds and those ker-ray-zee Japanese names. Yep. We hate it. We're just here for the Reyva-tail.
Uh.
Please meditate upon this link, NISA. Come back to us when you're done. (Warning: music and Flash, for those of you at work. Just check the URL.)
I'm buying AT2 because I want to play it in English, on release day. Furthermore, I want to support NISA over the fact that AT2 is being released here at all, and hopefully get AT3 released as well. So I'm giving them my money. But it's a dilemma, because honestly, I don't like the thought of supporting companies that pull this sort of stunt. At the risk of sounding elitist here, the AT series has been stated by some of the developers to be their life's work. Sure, it has innuendo, but that's not the main attraction; you can see that in the multiple 250-page books that have been released detailing every aspect of the world's history, technology and magicology that barely say a peep about the characters as sex symbols. Turning the characters of this carefully constructed fantasy into cheap tricks to sell games to your perceived market of Dumb Horny Amerikkuns is not okay, okay?
In conclusion: when a country like Japan, notorious for its objectification of the female figure and general lack of feminism, does a far better job than the American distros of presenting its female characters as characters in their own right rather than bits of fluff attached to the male protagonist, you know someone, somewhere, is seriously doing it wrong.
In other news, $INSERT_WINTER_HOLIDAY_HERE is almost upon us, and I'm off to spend it with one awesome individual, several rather less tolerable individuals, and a NEW TINYKITN as of tomorrow. My internet access is going to be minimal, most likely, so don't expect posts from me on this blog or the forums from the 23rd until New Year's; the Reyvablog will also be going on a hiatus until January 1st, which, given timezone crossing and need to recover from jetlag, will in practice probably work out at around the 2nd or 3rd. So have yourselves a merry little season, and I'll join you all again in 2009 for the last leg of our collective wait for the airship to Metafalss!
18 comments:
i serious agree with you on this, i mean, although japan is notorious for sexual stuff, it shows that japan are more willing to accept females as the star, as the main lead characters.On the other hand, Americans...well, they don't like females, in general.They prefer to let the males be in dominant rather than females.It has been shown, plenty of times.
I'm honestly not sure I see a need for revised covers. Isn't it just more expense on the developers' part?
same as for me, doesn't designing a totally new cover only adds more to their budget?Thats what i am wondering.I'd suppose they just want to cater to the American market...which is stupid.The world is already aiming for the global market, and yet they are still aiming for their own country for sales.They ought to think a bit more, and create something better.Even if they were to get a cover very similar to the japan one, i'd still say its better than getting one which spoils the game completely.
Please meditate upon this link, NISA. Come back to us when you're done.
i really think they should, and that they should stop thinking that 'catering to the consumers' is more important than the game itself.(i am sure even if the game were to be hard to understand, there will still be people whom are willing to try before making a judgment)
i really think they should, and that they should stop thinking that 'catering to the consumers' is more important than the game itself.
*nods* There's an issue of artistic integrity here. The work is already one thing; rebranding it as something completely different is deceptive. It's one step away from doing what was done with Cardcaptor Sakura/Cardcaptors: cut the original work up into little pieces, splice it back together how you think will "most appeal" to your audience, and sell the resulting hybrid as something completely different than it was. I really hope NISA haven't localised the game in favour of innuendo bias where there wasn't any in the original, but given what they said about the game in that interview with RPGamer, I think that's sadly a long-shot hope. At least we have the retranslation project, where I'll do my best, hopefully with the help of Aquagon and Lazy, to make sure any innuendo that's present is stuff that was in the original, not stuff added for the American audience.
But yes, even if they are looking to appeal to the consumers, this marketing campaign makes the assumption that the consumers are shallow, which is a pretty horrible thing to do. Haven't they actually done any market research? Don't they know that like a gazillion girls play RPGs these days? Sure, Ar Tonelico isn't the kind of game most female gamers would generally pick up on hearing about it, but if they'd used the existing covers, which look really nice and position the female characters prominently and in a non-sexist way, they might actually have appealed to that audience, and those who bought it may have been able to look past the innuendo and appreciate the game for what it is. Instead, most female gamers who don't already know the series probably won't touch AT2 with a very long stick; "oh, another one of those games where men drool over chesty women, ew".
I'd just like to say that I really don't care what the cover of a game looks like. Sure a nicer cover will catch attention easier, but people looking to play an RPG are not the type to glance at a cover and go "well this looks good" w/o ever reading the back cover at all.
As for making new covers...that spells all win for me. More artwork of good games is always a good thing, so long as it isn't tacky and distasteful.
Also note that most people never touched AT, because there were already too many sex references in it, not because there weren't enough. Adding more to it will only drive sales down further.
And lastly, lot of people do judge a game based on how much fan service is in it. I don't, but a ton of people do. Fan service is supposed to fit with the rest of the game...*eying you NISA*...adding stuff here and there just for the sake of doing it is idiotic and degrading to the original work.
but people looking to play an RPG are not the type to glance at a cover and go "well this looks good" w/o ever reading the back cover at all.
The problem with that is that the back covers have the same level of crudeness. "Always come back for seconds", anyone?
As for making new covers...that spells all win for me. More artwork of good games is always a good thing, so long as it isn't tacky and distasteful.
The problem is, it's not new... those pieces were already in the artbook. And while I wouldn't say the pictures by themselves are distasteful, I think putting them (at least the one used for AT2) on the cover is like saying that AT is all about the girls making out, which is distasteful, to me. The lack of taste is created by the context in which the art is used.
Also note that most people never touched AT, because there were already too many sex references in it, not because there weren't enough. Adding more to it will only drive sales down further.
Exactly. Which is why I think NISA failed hard, here. They assume that the American audience is a collection of horny adolescents, putting off a good number of people who might actually like the game if they tried it. I know even I was wary about buying AT1 at first because of everything I'd heard about it.
Fan service is supposed to fit with the rest of the game...*eying you NISA*...adding stuff here and there just for the sake of doing it is idiotic and degrading to the original work.
Yes. Really, really yes.
I do so hope they haven't bumped up the fan service in AT2. Judging from what Lazy said, it's not supposed to be that fanservicey, so if NISA are saying AT2 is more extreme in that regard, I'm willing to bet they've changed something. And that is not cool.
This game can sell on the power of its music and world. Heck, it'd sell on the hymns alone. They don't need to market anything else.
Add my voice to the lament about artistic integrity being thrown to the wolves for the sake of marketing. This game is meant to be a work of art, as anyone who's read statements from the creative team can tell. It's not meant to be selling itself out.
And as someone who happens by chance to be American, I'm rather offended by the insinuation that Americans don't like delicate cherry blossoms and tea and haiku. (In fact, a large percentage of the gamer types I know, both male AND female-- and for the record, I know about equal numbers of both-- are fond of that aesthetic.) That said, American media in general seems to deliberately put forth such a macho image, for both men and women, that I can't blame anyone for thinking that Americans either don't like delicacy, or don't want anyone to think they do or see them buying a game with such a cover. This, however, is not the fault of the average American; this is the fault of media trends reinforcing themselves by giving out messages that only what is acceptable in the media is acceptable to like. Even without taking into account the past eight years of politics, America's public image embarrasses me.
I'd also like to mention that all the Ar tonelico fans I know offline, including myself, bought the game despite the fact that it was a dating sim and with serious reservations about that part of it. Same goes for the handful of friends of mine who are considering playing it.
And it seems like the fandom, in general, thinks Lyner is icky and would way rather pair up the females with each other, so I think it's rather a mistake to assume that people really like the "dumb clueless guy gets harem of women to choose from" aspect of the game. They're not playing up the game for the part of it that people seem to really like. This is why game marketing committees should lurk in the series fandom more.
I don't think the Atelier Iris series' covers were half bad... Though there did seem to be a trend toward more aggression on the American covers. I'm not sure if that was meant to appeal to people who like action, and I haven't played the games, so I can't comment on how it is or isn't an accurate portrayal.
Anyway, all of the American box art seems to be consistent about putting the player character--the character who represents the player through most or all of the game--in front. So one could argue that it's kind~ of appropriate that way. Now I'm wondering about player characters who aren't really the main character, but rather a supporting character in everyone else's life story...
Everyone is their own life's main protagonist, right? And the player is certainly more of a visitor to that world than characters who have lived their whole lives there and have their own will, understanding, and feelings about everything within, so maybe it does make more sense for the player character to be featured less prominently on the cover... Lyner wasn't the main character. He was a character who supported other people. Just like everyone is a character in another person's life in addition to being the main protagonist in their own... I felt that the Japanese cover art for Mana-Khemia captured that dynamic especially well... None of the characters appear reliant on any other. Any one of them could get up and walk their own path in full confidence, but they are also each in a position to support the one who gets up.
Maybe that's my problem with AT's American covers... They's so small, so confined to only a few people who are crammed into a tight space in front of what might be as well be a greenscreen. It's so unlike the vastness, consistency, interconnectedness, and everything else about the world we've come to love. The characters look more like actors posing for a photo than people who happened to meet and learn to appreciate each other through circumstance and compassion... There's a profound misunderstanding of how the world can be portrayed. The game is just a medium through which a part of the creation is conveyed. Packacking it as a standard-issue story about a hero and the maidens he saves does cheapen it.
We're just here for the Reyva-tail.
._. I'd consider that statement, and especially the derogatory use of "Reyva-tail", to be thoroughly offencive if I didn't know you were being sarcastic.
I'm off to spend it with one awesome individual, several rather less tolerable individuals
Ahaha, what a cute way to say that. I know exactly the kind of situation you mean.
Even though most of this comment was negative, I hope you have a wonderful, peaceful, and safe rest over the holidays! (I'll have to see if I can get a window seat on that airship...)
(Note: Only talking about the AT games in this post. Not familiar enough with the others involved.)
Hmmm. Looking at both the Japanese covers... everything looks kind of tiny. The US ones really feel like a step up to me. Ignoring whether or not switching covers is a good idea for a moment, it looks to me like they picked better artwork. (On the first release I note that the outer box has the pink background, and the case inside has the blue.)
I remember Steambot Chronicles having an interesting approach to this. They had the original art on the manual cover, and (if I'm remembering right) they *explained* the art and name change right there in the manual. That was interesting.
I still haven't quite gotten used to thinking of Croix as male. o.O
*shrug* I don't really see the "pushed to the back" thing. I mean yes, they are in back. But to my eyes, Croche has been given the spot with the most visual impact - the upper left corner. (The same spot held by Aurica on the AT1 cover - though that always felt kind of unbalanced to me, with her so huge compared to Misha and Lyner.) And the part with Croche and Luca to me feels more a sort of warm and comfortable than sexual. I definately don't get any feeling of nervousness from it. (And I've found that I get *very* twitchy from images like that where people look nervous. Even if it's boys. `.` )
On the innuendo-in-translation score, I think it's a bit early to start judging them now. The interview doesn't really say that they're putting in stuff that didn't originally exist, and according to a person I know who imported it, there are some likely moments in there... (Also, the "seconds" line makes me think of large holiday meals. Could be it's just that time of year? `.` )
For that matter, there's a definate line between innuendo and fanservice. AT1 didn't have a lot of fanservice (unless you're me). But it certainly had innuendo.
"And it seems like the fandom, in general, thinks Lyner is icky and would way rather pair up the females with each other,"
I'm interested in this fandom you speak of. `.` I'm not sure anywhere I've seen is talking about that sort of thing at all. (Though I'm personally inclined to see Aurica, Lyner, and Misha in a type 8 relationship...)
Eeek, I have to be to work in seven hours. o.O
I felt that the Japanese cover art for Mana-Khemia captured that dynamic especially well... None of the characters appear reliant on any other. Any one of them could get up and walk their own path in full confidence, but they are also each in a position to support the one who gets up.
Yes. I was looking at that one in particular.... You have it down when you say no person seems dependent on any one other. The American AT covers really seem to be trying for an "I'll protect you, fragile maidens!" dynamic with the hero, which cheapens their autonomy, and that's another sexist thing. Any one of those characters could, should and does have a rich life of their own, and many strengths. They shouldn't be pictured as helpless little maidens who Croix/Lyner needs to protect; even if they are fragile, even if they do need to be physically guarded, it's typing them and ignoring everything else that they are.
It's so unlike the vastness, consistency, interconnectedness, and everything else about the world we've come to love. The characters look more like actors posing for a photo than people who happened to meet and learn to appreciate each other through circumstance and compassion... There's a profound misunderstanding of how the world can be portrayed. The game is just a medium through which a part of the creation is conveyed. Packacking it as a standard-issue story about a hero and the maidens he saves does cheapen it.
That's true. It feels very partialising, not nearly as loving and... gentle, I suppose. It's dynamic, in a way that focuses on the dynamism and not on the people themselves. "Rar! People doing things!" It doesn't acknowledge a more subtle interconnectedness, a complex world where everyone has a part to play. It doesn't even show the world at all! It just says "this is a story about X narrow scenario".
._. I'd consider that statement, and especially the derogatory use of "Reyva-tail", to be thoroughly offencive if I didn't know you were being sarcastic.
I do apologise for the, if even ironic, slur. I didn't invent the pun, to be fair; it was taken from a magazine that used it humorously yet definitely not sarcastically, and that ugly attitude was the thing that I was mocking.
Deciare: Yeah, we actually saw this magazine review of AT with a horrible tagline, the full text of which I will spare you, which involved that "Reyva-tail" pun. Ick.
Winters: I'm interested in this fandom you speak of. `.` I'm not sure anywhere I've seen is talking about that sort of thing at all.
Well... just from what I've seen on this blog, I guess. I don't go many other places because I don't want to see AT2 spoilers. But I've heard a lot of people here comment on girl/girl pairings and I've heard a lot of "ick, these people deserve better than Lyner." Of course, there was that Lyner/Ayatane fic, but I can see that because I think Ayatane really does know what Lyner's like rather than having an idealised image of him.
Ayulsa: The American AT covers really seem to be trying for an "I'll protect you, fragile maidens!" dynamic with the hero,
On the other hand, this dynamic exists in the game, too. The girls clearly think that Lyner is supposed to protect them in battle, and they're quick to point out that they are defenceless while singing (of course, this says nothing about when they're not deep in meditative concentration), and they're also not physically active people-- Shurelia falls on her face at random, Misha walks into the doorframe, and Lyner warns Misha not to try acrobatics like Shinobi Misha can do in her Cosmosphere because "you might get hurt". There's also the statue and Church classic legend about the Reyvateil's Guardian protecting her. (You know, the one-sentence legend that Radolf praises Aurica for being able to remember... clearly Reyvateil education doesn't expect much of its students.) So, while it is annoying that there's a stereotypical hero protecting the fragile maidens, in that regard the cover is only reflecting the game faithfully.
At least Lyner's macho heroism is critiqued, you know? (Jack: "Look, you're crazy. I don't think we should hang out anymore.") But in order to be critiqued, it has to be portrayed, and so... the cover's not lying, exactly; that really is there in the game. Even if it's not shown to be an ideal, its presence on the cover doesn't imply that it is, really, any more than an evil threat on the covers of some games endorse those threats as ideals-- it just shows that the game is about situations like that. Perhaps it can at least draw in people to whom that appeals, and then give them more insight about it...
(Apologies for any rambliness or disconnectedness. I need a nap.)
Even if it's not shown to be an ideal, its presence on the cover doesn't imply that it is, really, any more than an evil threat on the covers of some games endorse those threats as ideals-- it just shows that the game is about situations like that.
Hmm... I'm not sure I quite agree that they're the same. An evil threat on the cover that's obviously depicted in its imagery as an evil threat and the Thing You're Meant To Be Opposing doesn't promote evil, but an image like the one on the AT2 cover does portray a particular attitude as something exciting and drawing and... well, it's pretty obvious from those covers that the guys in front with the swords are the heroes that we're supposed to admire, and the girls in the back are the harem they're supposed to possess, and such.
I do think the cover definitely glamourises Hitting Things With Swords and Having A Harem Of Girls, whereas putting a Big Bad on the cover of something portrayed in a stereotypically coded way... well, it does say something about them; it implies that this person is fearsome, that they're an enemy, and reinforces the stereotype that people can be divided into black-and-white Good Guys and Bad Guys. So I don't think either is really good; the neutrality of the Japanese covers is pretty nice in that it goes "here is a world. Here are some people. Many things could be going on here." It doesn't attempt to type the people as anything in particular; it's just telling you they exist, and I quite like that.
Perhaps it can at least draw in people to whom that appeals, and then give them more insight about it...
I do agree with this. The cover image is far and away not the most important aspect in influencing people's perceptions; it could make a good lure. I don't think NISA were really thinking this far given how they've been marketing the series in general, but if it does manage to have that effect, that's still a positive.
The American AT covers really seem to be trying for an "I'll protect you, fragile maidens!" dynamic with the hero, which cheapens their autonomy
I'm not sure that being protected must be mutually exclusive from being able to act independently... The knowledge that we are being protected may offer us the assurance to visit places and do things we normally might not, right? The protection may not be necessary, but as with being lonely, even knowing that someone is thinking of you--without necessarily being there--can make a difference. More opportunities are open to those who can approach them with confidence.
Maybe I'm over-generalising. I think the promise of "I will protect you" is beautiful, but the cliche of "I'll protect you, fragile maidens!" is a bit grating.
It doesn't even show the world at all! It just says "this is a story about X narrow scenario".
*nods* The cover seems to imply that the world isn't even involved, and that this story archetype can be told a thousand times with interchangeable people, situations, and places. I guess if all you want is a story-package you can enjoy at your leisure, then that's enough. It's sad to suggest that it is all anyone should expect from Ar Ciel, though.
You know, the one-sentence legend that Radolf praises Aurica for being able to remember... clearly Reyvateil education doesn't expect much of its students.
That made me laugh. XD I did wonder what the Church's month-long education programme was like. I think we just glimpsed that... Not exactly brimming with transferrable job skills.
the neutrality of the Japanese covers is pretty nice in that it goes "here is a world. Here are some people. Many things could be going on here." It doesn't attempt to type the people as anything in particular; it's just telling you they exist, and I quite like that.
Yes! It's a style of cover design that doesn't try to answer the question, "So what?" That's up to the player to find out. It's a question that I'm really bad at answering, personally... When someone asks me what an RPG is about, I usually can't tell them without a lot of false starts and feeling out their style of thought. It's because I don't know what the game is about. There are too many personal, technical, social, and other kinds of reasons I like the whole world... I can't summarise it in a sentence without saying a lot less than I mean. That's esecially true with Ar tonelico.
So I think that, by not trying to answer the question of "So what?" Japanese covers are portraying the game honestly. It's potential in a package. Make of it what you will.
Maybe I'm over-generalising. I think the promise of "I will protect you" is beautiful, but the cliche of "I'll protect you, fragile maidens!" is a bit grating.
Pretty much. I certainly am not against the idea of protection as beautiful and meaningful; however, I think the idea that a man has to protect a woman-- not because she might want it or because it might be meaningful, but because of certain flaws in the woman-- has become so ubiquitous that to invoke the image of a man protecting a woman, without any explanation, is to reinforce that cliche.
So it's certainly not that I don't think "I will protect you" can be a good thing; it's that its presentation here makes no attempt to break from the stereotypes about such, and as such reinforces them.
It's sad to suggest that it is all anyone should expect from Ar Ciel, though.
Pretty much, yes. That's part of my problem with it as well. It reduces a multitude of possibilities to an overly simplistic idea.
When someone asks me what an RPG is about, I usually can't tell them without a lot of false starts and feeling out their style of thought. It's because I don't know what the game is about. There are too many personal, technical, social, and other kinds of reasons I like the whole world...
*nods.* To ask of any decently-constructed story or world, "what is this about?" is much like asking of the story of someone's life, or of this world, "what is this about?" There should be too much to tell; it shouldn't be able to be pinned down so easily.
(On a side note, I just hit Em Pheyna in my replay, and now that I'm looking for them, I can see the tails on a lot of the sprites. Though Lyra's is hard to see. Also, now I wonder where the "Foreigner" in the shop is from...)
Deciare brought up something that I didn't comment on before, not sure if I noticed it or not - the part about having the "viewpoint character" in front. And thinking about it, I would probably never guess that the viewpoint characters were Lyner and Croix respectively. (For AT1, I would have been expecting it to be Aurica I think. For AT2 I'm not sure, but I might have thought Croix was a villain if I hadn't already seen promo art before I saw any cover images...)
The part about interconnectedness is also interesting, because the original cover of AT1 feels very disconnected to me... Maybe just because everyone's so small? I don't know. I think if I were picking an image to use for the cover, I'd go for something like the one on the cover of the mini-artbook. Not quite a full cast shot, but it seems to give the right feel.
(haounomiko)
Well... just from what I've seen on this blog, I guess.
Ah. I was wondering if maybe there was fanfic being written somewhere. `.` (Even if there probably wouldn't be much for my favorite pairing...)
On the other hand, this dynamic exists in the game, too.
This is actually something I like, from a game-design perspective. A lot of RPGs I've run into have characters who are customizable to the point of interchangeability. (Many Final Fantasy games, I'm looking at you, and Chrono Cross gave me a similar feeling.) AT at least has some unique dynamics. (Though it doesn't seem to make much difference which Reyvateil's in your party, and other than Krusche's heal ability the others are pretty interchangable too.)
(Ayulsa)
I think the idea that a man has to protect a woman-- not because she might want it or because it might be meaningful, but because of certain flaws in the woman-- has become so ubiquitous that to invoke the image of a man protecting a woman, without any explanation, is to reinforce that cliche.
Hmmm. I don't really like that way of judging a cover like this. There's not much explaination one can get into a single image. Even with one of the things that really sets me off (certain romance novel covers), there tend to be clues in the titles. The average RPG title doesn't do that. (Heck, the average *H-game* title doesn't do that.)
And when an image like that is used, and once the context is known, does not fit the cliche, does that not do anything to break it down? I can't imagine that forbidding the use of such images will do anything but perpetuate it...
(Admittedly, my perspective may be somewhat modified by my not seeing either of the AT covers as "a man protecting a woman". AT1 is too obviously a composite image, and AT2... I still look at it and think Croix is female. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the idea is not going away.)
Oh, something else I forgot.
You know, the one-sentence legend that Radolf praises Aurica for being able to remember... clearly Reyvateil education doesn't expect much of its students.
I don't know, you might be selling it a bit short.
I know when I think back to the stories I studied in school, the ones I can come up with even a one-sentence summary of, I remember a lot more of... The ones I *can't* come up with a one sentence summary of, I'll be like "Why do I have this?" when I find a copy of it while looking through boxes of stuff...
For AT1, I would have been expecting it to be Aurica I think.
Were you referring to the Japanese cover art or the American cover art there? Would you like to elaborate how you were led to believe that Aurica was the viewpoint character?
For AT2 I'm not sure, but I might have thought Croix was a villain if I hadn't already seen promo art before I saw any cover images...
That's one of the problems with covers that redo characters to look more aggressive for extra cool factor. Croix doesn't look that sinister most of the time!
Also, damsels in distress, holding onto each other for consololation while being held captive by the villain. Omg cliche.
The part about interconnectedness is also interesting, because the original cover of AT1 feels very disconnected to me[...] I'd go for something like the one on the cover of the mini-artbook. Not quite a full cast shot, but it seems to give the right feel.
People don't have to be physically close to each other to be connected in spirit. Pressing the whole cast together for a box shot makes them look as though they're posing for a photo, like in the American covert art for Mana-Khemia. It's not as real to me as the knowledge that as I am thinking of them, they are also thinking of me. I am reminded of the phrase "alone in a crowd"; you can be physically close to a lot of people without truly connecting to them. I tend to be very distant from people at parties, for instance, but I appreciate every moment spent in a phone call or reading a letter from certain people whom I rarely see in person.
So, while it is annoying that there's a stereotypical hero protecting the fragile maidens, in that regard the cover is only reflecting the game faithfully.
... I suppose that's true. It's interesting to note that each Reyvateil gains a lot of independence by the end of the story, though, even if their path is not chosen, so it could be said that his support helped open the doors to their future. Even if he went through most of the story as merely a protector, he didn't end it as one.
I still look at it and think Croix is female. I can't quite put my finger on why, but the idea is not going away.
He gave me that first impression as well. Such an impression is usually indicative of significantly above average fashion sense and mental discipline. ^_^
I know when I think back to the stories I studied in school, the ones I can come up with even a one-sentence summary of, I remember a lot more of...
I've never been good at coming up with one-sentence summaries of anything. I'm fine with that... Better re-read value for old stories. ^_^
Were you referring to the Japanese cover art or the American cover art there?
Japanese. Aurica's a bit larger than the others, and centered, which sort of gives the feeling that she'd be the viewpoint character. (Mind you, I can't be *certain* that's what I'd think, because I hadn't seen the original cover until long after I'd already played through the game.)
Also the original for the "Croix=villain?" thing. He sort of gives me an impression of looming ominously. He doesn't give me that sort of impression in the US cover. Also, Luca just looks too happy for that scenario. `.` (There's something about the way Croix has his hand held out that... feels familiar, but I can't place why. Might not be anything relevent.)
Something else I just noticed on the US AT1 cover - Lyner isn't in an agressive/protective pose. He's got a calm expression, and his sword is sheathed. (If there's anything I find dubious about it, it's that it looks like there's a lot less to Misha's outfit than there really is, and that what's there might fall off at any moment...)
People don't have to be physically close to each other to be connected in spirit.
True. (In fact, given that all my close friends now are online people, I'd be in trouble otherwise...) But... well, they don't *feel* connected in spirit to me in that image. They look like people who happen to be in the same place, but don't really know each other. The group shot on the mini-artbook cover looks like a group of friends. Even with Jack over there not paying attention. `.` It doesn't give me the impression of being posed. (Neither does the MK one really; that just looks like a composite to me. Which has it's own advantages and disadvantages, I guess...)
It's interesting to note that each Reyvateil gains a lot of independence by the end of the story, though, even if their path is not chosen, so it could be said that his support helped open the doors to their future.
One of the things that I liked is that everyone develops in some way. (Well, I'm not sure about Radolf, but I never could relate to him very well, so I could be missing something.) Lyner's not the only one supporting people. (Though I do think Aurica probably needed someone in a position like Lyner's - held in high esteem, but not part of the Church's power strucutre - to get her started. It seems far too likely to me that if Radolf said some of the same things Lyner did, she'd think he was "just being nice". Even from Lyner it took a lot of convincing...)
Such an impression is usually indicative of significantly above average fashion sense and mental discipline. ^_^
Guess that makes me the exception, since I tend to be easily distracted and completely lack fashion sense (in RL at least). ^_-
Better re-read value for old stories.
I do a lot of that myself. It's sort of the same reason why I don't care about spoilers - even if I know the end, it's the details that make the difference. I have to be careful though, I've managed to burn myself out on stories in the past. I can hardly bear to think about reading Dragonsong again, no matter how special a place it holds in my heart...
I have to be careful though, I've managed to burn myself out on stories in the past.
I do know that feeling. At least for me, too much re-examining of the same material without anything supplemental (like fandom) to keep it fresh can make a thing start to lose its shine. There are also certain music pieces that I save listening to for special occasions, for the same reason: I don't want to tarnish the impact it has by wearing it out.
I can hardly bear to think about reading Dragonsong again, no matter how special a place it holds in my heart...
As someone who doesn't know this particular story, I'd be curious to hear you elaborate on what it is to you....
The funny thing is, most of the stuff I've gotten this sort of burnout with are things I'm not too interested in fanfic for. (Or are themselves fanfic.)
Though I think part of it is that the first couple times I did it, it was basically the only material of it's kind I had available. I have more options now, so it's easier to find things to read/watch without going over the same thing again. (It's actually gotten worse with fanfic though. I used to have a much higher tolerance for reading through piles of bad stuff in order to find good.)
I don't seem to have the same problem with music. I remember the first mp3 file I had was of "Cruel Angel's Thesis" from Evangelion, and whenever I was in my room I'd have it on constant repeat. These days I usually mix things up a lot more, but even if I listen to one song a lot close together, it doesn't lose it's impact for me. (And I will do that sometimes if I need to drive an annoying song or mood out of my head. Usually with EXEC_RIG=VEDA or "Wake Up Angel" from Pita-Ten.)
I'd be curious to hear you elaborate on what it is to you....
It was the book that got me into SF/F. Before that I pretty much read entirely mystery novels (Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, and The Three Investigators when I could find them, mostly). Then one day in school (fifth or sixth grade I think), I picked up a copy that was in the... classrom mini-library is the best thing I can think of to call it... and fell in love.
I seem to remember being rather stunned to find that there were more books that actually continued the story. Most of what I'd read before had recurring characters, but... things didn't really develop. It didn't really matter what order I read any of them in, there wouldn't be any real surprises.
A lot of the things I've become interested in now descend in some form or other from that, so I'd say it was a pretty pivotal event for me.
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